from september, 1918. explain what we are looking at? >> that is the final issue. i think it is self-evident, you look at those powerful, artistic, political cartoons. by september 1918, puck had converted itself. it was much more of a magazine of art, it was much less political. it featured pictures of pretty women, here, of course we are still in world war i. and, this is representative of a way. at the time, the magazine was known by the hearst corporation. >> we will conclude on that note. the book is "what fools thee mortals be! the story of puck". michael alexander kahn, the co- author. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. our conversation on puck magazine and its use of political satire continues. coming up, michael alexander

kahn talks about puck cartoons on the presidency. his book is "what fools thee mortals be! the story of puck" . >> you are watching american artifacts on american history tv. joining us in our studio is the co-author of the book "what fools thee mortals be! the story of puck" , michael alexander kahn , the book came out back in 2014. thank you for being with us. in order to understand the publication of puck, you have to understand joseph keppler. who was he? >> he was an immigrant from austria. he was an artist. he was a theatrical person. he had a great amount of interest -- interest in politics from his austrian experience. >> wide he publish puck magazine? when did it come out, and what with his influence? >> he published puck because he came to the united states, and he was an artist. he became a political cartoonist and he was

successful. i think that it was a commercial effort for him, and it was also an artistic inspect -- expression. he was an artistic man. you see this in his cartoons. a lot of references to theaters, the bible, things like that. >> who was puck, and where did it come from? >> he used puck from a midsummer nights dream. puck is about irony and hypocrisy. and the things that people do that they should not do. he picked up the symbol because in a midsummer night's dream, puck observes the folly of man. in a sense, puck's forty-year reign is about the folly of man. at first, it looked similar. it was black and white. very soon, it went into full, double spread, pictures. all color. front, back, and a middle colorful -- centerfold. they were beautiful, never seen before. >> was it delivered in the mail? did people buy it in store? how much?

>> it was very cheap. i cannot remember, in up -- nickel or something like that. it was distributed from a newsstand. >> advertising? >> a lot of advertising. it is really fun if you look at the magazine now, anything from a shaving cream two pills that will make you stronger and better, to travels, a lot of the companies are still around today. >> first year, 1876. let's look at the chase for the presidential cup, as we talked about in our earlier conversation. first publication was in german. and then it went to english. >> right. right from the start, puck was interested in politics. this is the presidential election of 1876. the democrat was samuel tilton. and the republican -- there was a greenback candidate to the right. interestingly, puck thought the greenback candidate was the only one made commonsense.

it was showing what was going to happen in the race. if you look at the race, he is about to jump over the barrier, and fall into a pit. in the pit, is the publican problem. unfortunately, hayes is going to fall into the pit also. and grant is in the pit. that is a problem. what keppler is saying is that both of -- the democrat and republican will fall into the pit. >> in 1876 that became comparable to bush and gore in 2000. there is ahead on each side of the post. do you know what that represents? >> one of the lessers, is the vice president for candidate -- candidate. i am not sure who the head is on the right. probably the republican vice presidential candidate. >> again, the early one is in black and white. and quickly moving to color.

>> right. exactly. >> there was concern that president grant would seek it -- the return. how was that portrayed in 1880? >> so, puck was adamantly against it. they thought that grant was a terrible president. and it was not just a concern, grant ran for president 1880, and he almost won the republican nomination. and likely would have been reelected. and, puck ran a series of anti- grant cartoons, this is one of the strongest, it suggested that grant is the golden calf, and the biblical allusions are clear. thou shalt not seek a third term to the right. you see that puck is holding up the tents commandment. if you look at this, a lot of detail is in the work. not only detail, but every single one of the heads is a beautiful caricature, a

portrait if you will, of a well- known figure. the person to the right of the center, underwear the politician is, is comically. just in case you do not remember them, they have the names written. do you see the one to the left? around the necks on the name. each one is a beautiful image. remember, this is not photography. joseph keppler individually drew the faces of people. there is a fellow named james logan, well recognized for his mustache. the next one is from 1880. the bait over a third term, obviously was prevalent in 1940 -- 1840, when fdr sought a third term. this is the end of the show. on june eighth, 1880, the republicans nominated james garfield. and grant.306 votes, which

almost got him in. to the right is comically. he is bowing down to grant. this is the tip of the hat, where grant behaves with dignity. here, grant is behaving with dignity. he is surrendering to garfield, who is becoming the leader. you see, puck is on the left. he is the winner. on the right, garfield. on the right, there are tents. they depict various scandals during the grant administration. >> let's look at another image from 1880. as you point out in the book, this was the most popular of that period? why? >> this is a scandal. it does not seem scandalous today. this is a virgin bride, supposedly, and virgins. because on the left, in russian, somebody is saying, wait a minute, this is a baby that a virginal right is giving -- given. at that time it was scandalous.

the bride is garfield. the bridesmaids are all members of the republican party. garfield headset, in fact, yes, there are a lot of scandals but i do not have any scandals. i did not do anything wrong. well, in fact, he had done a little thing wrong. he had taken some money, not very much, as one of the scandals. the chairman of the democratic party is rushing in, to the wedding, and saying there is just a small problem. and everybody is embarrassed, the image of the bearded bride was one that everybody likes. and you have uncle sam, looking at the whole situation. the point was made. the point being that garfield was dirty just like the rest of the republican party. >> from your book, the following. he is a frequent lecturer on the significance of political cartoon art. and has developed educational

material based on the art of teaching at university and high school levels in museum programs. >> in conjunction with ohio state, we have a program where the history department of ohio state would pick political cartoons and we held seminars for teachers who taught required courses in the high schools in ohio. we would teach them how to teach immigration, or tariffs, or other kinds of thing, using political cartoons. i have done that in many contacts. i taught a course at ucla. using political cartoons. and in every context, we used political cartoons to teach, and we found that the students were more interested. they remembered more and got the context more. >> what do they tell us about the past? >> here is what they tell us. it is that it is very similar to the present. what they learned is that the same kind of disputes and problems and foibles occurred in the past. the second thing about the past

is that it is relevant to the present because the problem we are facing today evolved from the past. you can see that there are linkages. students who think history is dry and and interesting when looking at cartoons in the book, all of a sudden think it is really interesting. it does relate to the present. >> how did you research this material? >> i have a very large library, i have been collecting for over 40 years. political cartoons and political cartoon material. and, it started when i was at ucla. at a program here in washington, and at stanford. took program where i was studying for a phd on the american presidency. >> james garfield, he is elected president. then assassinated. chester arthur becomes president. and he becomes a target by mr. keppler. why? >> at first, the thought was that arthur was the least qualified person ever to be president. i know that people think, how can that possibly be?

he never held office before. he was a political hack. he quickly became president. and the worry that puck had was that arthur was going to pass out patronage, in an irresponsible fashion. one has to remember that the chief benefit of being president in the 1880s was the ability to -- hire a lot of people. there were no silver services and you could pass out benefits. here, puck is going after arthur. saying he is passing out benefits, to the republican cronies. he is throwing out the job and doing it without conscientious effort at all. you have the drama and the champagne. the great machine trick and of course, passing out patronage. if you take a look at the people, all of the spaces are people. at the very bottom, center, is benjamin butler. and there are lots and lots of people who could be recognized. the fellow to the left a guy

named carl scherz. they are all recognizable. in 1884 he wrote the following, arguably the most important and influential political cartoon ever published. that is a pretty powerful statement. in 1884, grover cleveland won the presidency by 1200 votes. that resulted in him winning the state of new york and the united states of america. this cartoon was published in 1884, going after the republican candidate, james blaine. what they did was copy a very famous piece of art, and they unveiled blaine, and he is completely tattooed with the scandals of the replica -- republican party. this was circulated in the united states and be -- he became known as the tattooed man. this cartoon was so influential that it -- it tipped the scales. >> james blaine lost that

election. there was a competitor that published the following, taking aim at what joseph keppler did. what do -- what are we looking at here? >> what we have are the origins of the cartoon. by 1884, puck magazine had an imitator. it was a democratic magazine, and judge magazine was probe republican. it was so hit by the tattooed man concept that they said, wait a minute, blaine was not the only man tattooed. field, lincoln, washington, were all tattooed also. the tattooed man, the concept, became a political issue unto itself. it is the argued -- they argued back and forth about it. the effect of it. ultimately, i think that james blaine was tattooed. >> if you look at this, abraham lincoln, our 16th president and our first president, george washington. >> right.

>> this is another publication. another image. what are we looking at? >> so, puck had a problem. in 1880, there was an opposition. 1884, they supported cleveland. all of a sudden, cleveland won. they had to start figuring out how to depict cleveland, and make the cartoons interesting. this was a cartoon of cleveland, depicted as a herculean character. all of these people, these are democrats and republicans who would be an obstacle to the administration. they are depicting the brave cleveland moving through the terrible obstacles. you can see, the two headed monster. we have a pirate, and unfortunately, the racism of the time. you have the jewish moneylender on the left side. you have all of these different people, who will be a problem for cleveland. he is going to march through

the administration, on the administration's road. >> a very herculean and muscular president. look at the eyes, why are they so bold and bright? >> i think that a part of keppler's genius and characters was that he was really good with the eyes of people, expressing the emotions, and expressing the interest and enthusiasm. >> 1892, you write the following , puck expressed concern about the influence of money in the 1892 presidential campaign. in a cartoon which is still current today. >> in the 1884 -- 1892 period, the elections were close. the republicans were in charge. republicans were the party of the rich, the industrialists, the monopoly. they poured a huge amount of money into the republican party. the democrats did not have comparable packing by any means. in 1880, and 1892, the candidate was desmond harrison,

and he was running for reelection. he pretended that he was just a guy from indiana. and he was just a member of the people. in fact, what puck was pointing out, if you look at the back, they call it the -- the entire republican presidency is propped up by money and politics. today, the same objection is made. the enormous amount of money in politics and enormous influence of money in our political process. >> what surprised you the most in researching this book? was there an a-ha moment for you? >> it wasn't about this. puck published many things. about divorce, abortion, civil rights, conservation. in the 1870s, 1880s, and 1890s. i was so surprised to learn that issues like that were prominent, even back then. >> you talk about president mckinley, he was elected in 1896. the great unknown, june 17,

1886. what is this? >> mckinley was known for bringing -- being pro-tariff. he was nominated president, and in those days, you did not campaign. you sat on the porch, and people came and saw you. and people asked mckinley what his position was on the great issues of the day. mckinley refused to tell people what his position was on issues on international issues and other issues. puck is complaining that people would come to the magician, mckinley, and they would not -- he would not tell them what his position was. it is noted, he has a napoleon like cost you to -- costume in the back. >> you think of the cross of gold, which became emblematic. his style and approach as he ran for president in 1896. yet, joseph keppler was not a

big fan of willing -- william jennings bryan. was he? >> actually, puck -- all of the puck people did not like . they switched sides. they went from democrat to republican. they thought that bryan the danger -- was dangerous. you take a look, this is the first cartoon ever depicting a presidential candidate as a bomb thrower and anarchist. they suggested that william jennings bryan was dangerous to the united states. they had an entire theme in 1896 arguing that yes, mckinley is no good, but you have to vote for mckinley because bryan is dangerous to america. >> calling him a demagogue. >> and he was a bit of a demagogue. he was -- people were enthralled with him. >> how significant was that? to the mckinley campaign? >> mckinley won in an enormous landslide in 1896. >> this is a mckinley easter

egg? >> this is one of the interesting, ironic cartoons in american history. his vice president died in 1898. in the year 1900, when mckinley was up for renomination, he needed a vice president. all of these little chicks are vice president possibilities. the one on the right is theodore roosevelt. he became president of the united states when mckinley was assassinated. none of us have heard of these other little chicks. had mckinley chosen one of them, we would have had president jones or president smith. mckinley chose roosevelt. ironically, roosevelt wanted to get rid of him has -- as governor of new york. >> william jennings bryan was back on the ballot in new york.

>> he is the gift that keeps on giving to republicans. in 1896, he burst onto the scene. and he was defeated. and the thought was that he was going to be gone. in 1900, not only was he not gone, this is one of my favorite cartoons because the imagery is so stark. it is a beautiful -- beautiful cartoon. beautifully drawn. the picture of bryan is perfect. you have the snake, saying that the populist party is following the democratic party. the democrats party, as we know it, is no more. so, puck, the publication continues to go back to william jennings bryan, with the start of a new century. with the start of the 20th century. you have this, the attack, but the government still lives. here, the victory of the republican party over puck is complete. puck is now a -- 100% behind william mckinley. and it is suggesting that mckinley is for expansion, which puck is in favor of.

they were in favor of the gold standard, and expansion, being that this was the time of the american war and other conflicts. the idea here is that mckinley is in favor of america keeping their conflicts, and that is what we should be doing. >> at the start of his second term, william mckinley is assassinated. he dies. roosevelt becomes president. how did joseph keppler depict president roosevelt? >> at first they left him. he was a republican with democratic the is. he was against the trust, he had a lot of integrity. he did not appear to be a hypocrite. at the beginning, they thought, we do not like the republican party, but we love teddy roosevelt. and teddy roosevelt was a bigger man than the party. and wiese of -- support teddy roosevelt. >> that changed over the years? >> a couple of things happened. one thing was the people who ran puck died, and somebody

else took over. they were two democrats. they stopped supporting teddy roosevelt. and then, in puck's view, teddy got too big for his britches. this was published in 1907, despite the earlier one that you saw about running for a third term, roosevelt was toying for the ike -- with the idea of running for a third term. puck thought that was a violation of the constitution. even though the constitution does not specify. puck thought that roosevelt was running a roughshod over the constitution. look how road -- robust roosevelt is portrayed as. remember, the giant in jack in the beanstalk did not do so well. puck is depicting here, even though roosevelt is huge and powerful, that the constitution will prevail, and roosevelt will not get away

with his shenanigans. >> this is an obvious question, but no television in this time period. no radio, no smart phones. this really was a key source of information for the american public? >> absolutely. they enjoyed it. they got these cartoons. they looked at it. they passed them around to friends. some of the friends could not read. and so the fence that could not read -- they understood with the cartoon meant. >> let's talk about immigration. as you mentioned, the first publication was in german, which gives you an indication of the influx at the time. this one is called looking backwards. what is it? >> this is one of the most famous political cartoons of all time. this depicts people opposing immigration in 1893.

each of these people have ancestors from various countries around the world. puck is pointing out the hypocrisy of people who are saying i do not want immigrants to, now. but they, themselves, our children or grandchildren. >> what would you tell congress and the president as they take up daca and immigration, today? >> i would say -- point out that people in the shadows are the people who are going to be the people in the forefront, and if you do not have the people in the shadows, you do not have the people in the forefront. >> talk about unions and child labor laws. how big of an issue worthies in the 1890s, early 1900s? >> so, compared to the 21st century, the laws in the united states of america were quite primitive. in the early 1900s. there were a lot of states that allowed child labor, and conditions that were really appalling. this is a period where puck became quite liberal for the

times. they were desperately opposed to child labor laws. this cartoon is drawn by a very famous cartoonist named art young. who subsequently published for a very left-wing journal. this is a start -- stark cartoon, suggesting that people who employee tiber -- child labor are horrible, greedy people. look at the faces. that is a good -- good point. another issue was constant -- conservation. it remains an issue today as we become a green world. 1884. this is a pretty incredible cartoon. to our knowledge, it is one of the first cartoons published decrying the spoiling of the land. this is a cartoon, on the right is the forest, on the left is the effects of development. and puck, as early as 1884, was suggesting that we needed to take care of our homeland in a way that deserves it for the future. >> if you look at that, you can

also see, if you look carefully, in the upper center, a hand extended, and -- it looks like a ghost. >> right. and what puck is warning, is that if we do not do something about this, if the tide will eventually result in the deforestation of our forests and the destruction of our resources. >> so, puck magazine came out in 1876. it ended when? >> 1918. >> why? >> newspapers started to publish cartoons. a lot of color cartoons and newspapers. photography got much more available, and cheaper. an though, a lot of different photographs, wonderful pictures of cartoons and politicians. now you can see all of the faces. in magazines and newspapers. and so, the cartoons have less of a bank -- trent headley -- bang because they are more influential. >> does this matter today?

>> this is a great question. i think that they do. the impact of cartoons, that any normal ordinary citizen can open up a magazine or a book, or the internet, and look at a cartoon. even today, on my internet. every day, somebody sends a cartoon around to friends, somebody uses a cartoon to make a point. the impact of cartoons is that you look at it and you immediately get the point and it resonates. a cartoon speaks truth. cartoons and speak truth. in satirical and important ways. in this day and age, what is true is important. we need the media fortress. cartoons are more important than ever. >> did joseph keppler leave a diary or a memoir? >> my co-author wrote a book about him. joseph keppler died in 1893. actually, half of the cartoons that you see that they keppler

are from the sun. there is keppler the first and the second. i do not know if he left a diary. he did not plan on dying. he died prematurely. so, the biography of coupler, written by my colleague, richard west, is the best source of information on him. >> you talk about your own passion, as a teacher and as a collector of his work. how should we view today, and how should educators use this for students, in the 21st century? >> we cannot make people learn things that they do not want to learn. and we cannot make people learn in ways they do not want to learn. but, cartoons are more popular than ever. that is the effect of these cartoon books now. these graphic novels. people are willing to read graphic novels, they are willing to look at cartoon, and they are willing to use it as a vehicle to learn. and so i think that is how they should be used in the future. >> michael alexander kahn , the author of "what fools thee mortals be! the story of puck".

thank you for joining us on american history tv and american artifacts. >> thank you. with congress in recess this week, we are bringing you american history tv in prime time on c-span 3. up next, a political satire and tasted -- discussion about the landmark supreme court decision in hustler magazine v. falwell . c-span's washington journal live, every day. with news that impacts you. coming up on wednesday morning, american federation of teachers president -- discusses policy under the education secretary and the world of teacher unions. and centennial director jeff hunt talks about the state of conservatism in the upstate -- upcoming --. and then, immigrant policies on

children who enter from the border. be sure to watch c-span's washington border, at 7 am eastern, join the discussion. 30 years ago, the supreme court announced its decision in hustler magazine versus falwell. the court ruled unanimously for hosler. which had published a cartoon parity of jerry falwell, who sued to recover damages for libel, invasion of privacy, and emotional distress. next, a discussion of the landmark free-speech case, with editorial cartoonist coma and legal expert. this one hour event was part of a symposium on satire, held at the university of minnesota. >> i want to welcome you all to the state of our satirical union. this is the 30th